01 EN: From Powder to Power - High‑Conductivity Copper Components from Miba Sinter Austria

00:00:00: This episode was translated from a German interview with AI.

00:00:10: We've been processing iron powder for decades and now copper powder is coming into production, so it's a big step for let say our tool-making quality assurance, production planning... ...and of course our sales team.

00:00:21: In this case we really means us because this isn't something that can be done by small teams or just two people.

00:00:27: The entire site is behind it to bring such components in serial production.

00:00:32: Welcome to the new episode of MiBA Inside, MiBA's tech podcast for all MiBA colleagues and anyone who is enthusiastic about technologies for a cleaner planet.

00:00:42: Here we talk about what you usually don't see – The technology inside engines trains ships wind turbines hydroelectric power plants power grids And much more.

00:00:52: Our experts from MiBA explain how our components help make customers products & applications safer More reliable and energy efficient.

00:01:00: They also show why we are among the world leaders in many of these specialist areas.

00:01:05: Today's episode is about how pressed and scinted metal powder makes charging electric cars really fast!

00:01:13: My guests today are Manuel Pohn, R&D team leader for these copper parts & this production unit And Roe Burt Helen, Materials Expert & Innovation Manager.

00:01:22: Welcome it's great to have you here.

00:01:24: Hello

00:01:25: Hello, hello everyone.

00:01:27: My name is Orton Chandel and I'm delighted to be your host for this podcast.

00:01:31: at the beginning of each episode we like To get to know our guests a little better will do The same with you now.

00:01:37: so here are A few quick questions For You robert And manuel.

00:01:41: what Is Your Favorite Sintered part?

00:01:43: well for me it's relatively simple anything that shines Like copper.

00:01:46: So all the copper parts We Are Currently Developing and Producing?

00:01:50: And my answer has to Be That Since i am Responsible for All Materials it's hard for me to decide.

00:01:56: I am a fan of all-sintered parts as long we use metal

00:01:59: powder.".

00:02:01: Tell us, how have you both been at Mieber?

00:02:04: I've

00:02:04: been in Mieberg since two thousand sixteen coming straight from university and i'm still working on research and development .I also work with powders and materials since twenty sixteen ,and now about three years involved in innovation management.

00:02:19: So you've already celebrated your tenth anniversary.

00:02:22: Not quite yet, in October then.

00:02:23: Manuel

00:02:24: have you already celebrated Your ten year anniversary?

00:02:27: Yes I had a very similar career path doing my thesis at MIBA In two thousand fourteen and yes i actually stayed on working in various positions And for various lengths of time.

00:02:38: now For four or five years I'd been intensively Working with copper and aluminum materials.

00:02:43: so keyword thesis Which You did At MIBA.

00:02:47: What kind Of Education Do You Have?

00:02:49: I studied Mechanical Engineering at Graz University of Technology and as is often the case with master's programs, The semesters fly by faster than in bachelor's programmes.

00:02:57: And at some point i realized that needed to write a thesis.

00:03:00: so i applied for the thesis where my current boss interviewed me already back then... ...and since then yes ,i was in!

00:03:07: And ive been very happy there ever since

00:03:09: It was similar for m ee.. ..I also went to a technical university but in Vienna not Graz.

00:03:15: I studied technical chemistry there and then specialized in powder metallurgy during my master's program.

00:03:22: So, i actually studied this field of Powder Metallurgy... ...I completed that!

00:03:26: Then did my PhD In the Field Of Chemical Technologies focusing on powder metallurgical steels & hard metals.

00:03:34: And then yes it just happened.. ..In two thousand sixteen The decision had to be made between the company supervising and financing My PHD or MIBA and I chose MIBA.

00:03:45: But we'll hear later that you don't just have to study... ...to be very successful in your team.

00:03:50: Let's move on todays topic!

00:03:52: So, basically it is about sintering which will clarify in a moment.

00:03:57: but first these sintered parts are small components.. ..that as I said in the intro are found in larger drives gears and so-on.

00:04:04: Where exactly do sintered part come into my average daily life?

00:04:08: If i say drive for work or an apartment I fly on vacation from time to time.

00:04:13: Well One thing you can say for sure is that if your driving a car to the podcast recording.

00:04:19: There's an almost certain chance there are Mieber sintered parts.

00:04:23: in their we're very dominant and the automotive industry with our components, to be exact in engines transmissions of infact all european car manufacturers.

00:04:34: Are there other areas of application where I might not even think that they are powder metal components from Miba in them?

00:04:40: Yes, In addition to automotive.

00:04:42: There is also the so called non-automotive business.

00:04:45: So basically anything that drives can be assumed to have parts from us and it's somewhere.

00:04:50: Another example outside of automotive applications would be The industrial sector Where we manufacture parts for compressors.

00:04:56: in Brazil For example.

00:04:58: We've been talking about sintered parts the whole time, so let's clarify.

00:05:01: The question what exactly is sintering?

00:05:04: who will answer that?

00:05:05: The innovation manager or the materials expert?

00:05:07: in this case

00:05:08: I can do that.

00:05:09: So we have metal powder as a raw material As you mentioned at the beginning which we press.

00:05:15: In other words You can imagine That the metal powder is poured into a mold A top punch and lower punch Apply pressure And the metal Powder is pressed Into component.

00:05:26: This already has a certain strength, but to really become a metallic component it has to undergo thermal treatment which you could call baking.

00:05:35: In our case this goes through the sintering furnace where compressed particles bond together and form components.

00:05:42: in many cases they are then finished.

00:05:44: That means that we don't have to treat them afterwards?

00:05:47: No there is some post-treatment steps such as forming calibration heat treatment, meaning harden it but everything is actually optional.

00:05:58: There are some parts especially our high volume ones that really only pressed centered and then delivered to the customers.

00:06:04: so its a very efficient process which why used in automotive industry?

00:06:09: steel powder metallurgy is known for producing high-volume components cost effectively.

00:06:22: It's a very complex process route, but it is versatile and can actually produce many different components.

00:06:29: So as you said, sintering is similar to baking.

00:06:32: The moulds are perhaps a bit like those in a sandbox.

00:06:35: I have different molds that i can fill with the material and press With the difference that the sand moulds Are not heated to one thousand degrees.

00:06:43: Manuel what Is the advantage of this?

00:06:45: A sintering furnace reaches over One Thousand Degrees so why do You put the already pressed metal powder through such a furnace?

00:06:52: Well...you Can imagine it Like This if you Have a gear In Your Car It's Naturally Subjected To Stress something in the car, transmit power and if we just compress the powder then I only have a compressed component with no strength.

00:07:05: And the sintering process ensures that the particles diffuse into each other in this case... ...and thus also obtain the strenght they need.

00:07:11: Diffusing into eachother means they merge together right?

00:07:14: It is very interesting.

00:07:15: everyone thinks it becomes liquid at one-thousand, one hundred twenty, one thousand, one-hundred thirty degrees but most of the materials we use nothing become liquid.

00:07:26: So this diffusion process that Manuel mentioned happens in the solid phase, which means nothing necessarily melts.

00:07:34: But they bond with each other right?

00:07:36: Exactly!

00:07:37: Through chemical processes that do not involve melting.

00:07:40: And can strength be compared to that of solid metal anyway?

00:07:44: As a rule of thumb it would be about eighty percent of the strength of solid steel.

00:07:49: If we then follow up our forming processes, We achieve full density in the stressed component areas and Then are equivalent.

00:07:58: If you want to know exactly how a sintering process works or what it looks like at our sites, You are welcome to watch the Mieber videos on YouTube and subscribe to the MIEBER group channel.

00:08:08: And follow us there!

00:08:09: There you can see in some videos animated Or live At Our Locations What A Sintering Furnace Looks Like?

00:08:16: What The Metal Powder Looks Like Before It Is Poured Into Molds Or Rather In The Case Of Powder Pressed into Molds.

00:08:23: Let's Now Move On To The Component of The Day.

00:08:25: Manuel, you already mentioned that we're talking about copper parts.

00:08:28: That is copper metal powder.

00:08:30: These copper parts are highly conductive and used in the charging infrastructure of electric cars.

00:08:55: Of course, with electric cars it's now electricity that we have to refuel.

00:08:59: And in order transfer the electricity as quickly and efficiently from charging station to car battery you naturally need highly conductive materials and copper is perfect for this.

00:09:09: It is material with highest conductivity both electrically and thermally among common materials.

00:09:15: Yes!

00:09:15: We thought about where could use our components what advantages of technology are?

00:09:20: And came across the charging station.

00:09:22: You can imagine like There is a connection between the charging station and car, The connector that I then plug into the car.

00:09:29: And it's precisely this connector at front That must be able to transmit high current density... ...and exactly where our component is located!

00:09:37: And copper because it extremely conductive compared other metals right?

00:09:42: Exactly two advantages.

00:09:44: First, extremely high electrical conductivity and what Robert said earlier about strength in iron-based components applies analogously to our nonferrous metals.

00:09:55: This means that copper has the same material properties as solid copper except we have the advantage of shaping it.

00:10:01: Could you explain this a little more detail?

00:10:04: You mentioned solid copper.

00:10:05: The strength is the same but you have an advantage being able press powder into mold.

00:10:11: That is actually the advantage of all metal powder components, but also of copper.

00:10:15: What exactly can you do with it?

00:10:17: what freedoms to have that you don't have with solid metal?

00:10:21: You can imagine current carrying components are sometimes very complex especially in terms of geometry.

00:10:26: It doesn't just has be a pipe and branches or different structures.

00:10:31: And if I machine such a complex component from solid material i naturally have lot of material waste its very costly And solid copper is, let's say... not very exciting to work with.

00:10:44: Why?

00:10:44: Copper is very ductile and produces very long chips.

00:10:48: That means that every machinist Is happy when they don't have to machine too much copper.

00:10:53: We simply have the huge advantage that we can already reproduce the complex structure and shape in the mold, ...and have a material utilization rate of almost ninety-nine percent.

00:11:02: That means one per cent of total material is used as waste for smaller machining steps... but generally use whole amount powder to make components so

00:11:09: you get most out of valuable raw materials?

00:11:12: Exactly!

00:11:13: At current price it's even better than steel or iron.

00:11:16: Does that mean in the future all charging stations will have these small copper cylinders so that charging is really fast?

00:11:23: Well, In best case scenario yes but you need to be a little realistic.

00:11:26: Our components are used for high performance charging stations.

00:11:30: You shouldn't expect our copper components at home For example.

00:11:34: they're intended for fast charging stations.

00:11:37: That means if u want to charge your car with a very high current thats where we'll find our components.

00:11:42: And of course we aren't tied to the charging infrastructure to the charging station.

00:11:47: but we can manufacture different highly conductive complex components and the next step will be defined in search for these in electric cars,

00:11:55: that may have been lost a little earlier.

00:11:58: In this very simple explanation of how our process works with one upper-one lower punch & a mold.

00:12:06: In reality there are usually several punches.

00:12:09: Very complex shapes are involved – thats what Manuel said too!

00:12:13: For example cooling channels.

00:12:16: We can already implement certain shapes that otherwise require a lot of machining during processing.

00:12:22: That's actually the big advantage!

00:12:24: Cooling channels in cars then?

00:12:26: No,

00:12:26: cooling channels in components specifically for plug which is cooled and much more efficient to manufacture than using exciting machining.

00:12:36: Robert you are an innovation manager.

00:12:39: How did you actually come up with this idea?

00:12:41: Well, your a materials expert.

00:12:42: You're a metal powder expert but how did you came up with the idea of trying out new metals and application?

00:12:48: I didn't come up on my own.

00:12:50: we supply most components to automotive industry involved in field.

00:12:55: for several years The entire company has been thinking strategically about how can tap into other markets perhaps process other materials or applications.

00:13:05: from overall strategy We have defined a number of materials that can realistically be produced with our equipment.

00:13:12: These included copper and aluminum, And we also looked at titanium – At least on the R&D side.

00:13:19: Of course customer interest also played a role….

00:13:22: …and it grew steadily.

00:13:23: Once we knew we could process copper... ...we obtained a number patents for very special processes That only MiBA is capable off.

00:13:31: That's how it all came together.

00:13:32: But

00:13:33: I also heard, if i understand correctly that as part of this development you learned even more about the material.

00:13:38: is that right?

00:13:42: It wasn't so simple at the beginning.

00:13:44: our team tried out some new materials and we realized okay there's potential here We can actually make something out of this.

00:13:49: And what do we have to do with it?

00:13:53: At that point luckily a customer reached asking for copper components.

00:13:58: We took that opportunity and said all right, there seems to be market interest.

00:14:03: Let's move in the

00:14:04: direction.".

00:14:05: From then we kind of worked our way forward because honestly... ...we didn't have any real expertise in this area.

00:14:12: so we relied heavily on customers knowledge.

00:14:15: What exactly do they need?

00:14:17: While at same time figuring out how could push technology and material development further.

00:14:24: It was very much a given take with customer And the product I mentioned earlier actually came about in exactly that way.

00:14:31: We got in touch with the customer almost by chance, he said he was looking for someone who could manufacture this part and we said well... ...we have a very innovative approach.

00:14:40: so within ten months from initial contact to start of series production.. ..we had it ready to go!

00:14:47: So this development is result of close cooperation with customers?

00:14:51: Exciting!

00:14:52: The Austrian Mieber Sinterers, as you are known within Miebe, are based in Forkdorf.

00:14:57: So Mieberg-Sinter Austria is basically a place where Mieba not only researches and develops but also runs full scale series production.

00:15:06: Tell us a bit about how that works together.

00:15:09: How a product like this actually comes to life?

00:15:11: You already mentioned the customer side, but how does the process look at your site and what are the advantages of having not just development hub... ...but full production facility right there as well?

00:15:22: Yes coming back again we received very specific customer requirements And also have equipment to manufacture it.

00:15:30: in our development department There is always a difference between making one part as prototype and many thousands.

00:15:36: And precisely for this approach, where we then transfer the whole thing from individual prototypes to series production it's of course essential to be able draw on know-how and technical expertise in our long standing employees that exactly how development takes place.

00:15:50: This means once you know component will go into series production or manufactured high volumes.

00:15:57: We also draw on the know-hows of specialists who then give us valuable tips on how to do this and how we can produce thousands of parts per day.

00:16:04: without their know-how, This would not be possible.

00:16:06: I must also say that... ...this strategy existed on paper.

00:16:11: Of course We knew..we could use our equipment But still had to adapt something at every step in the process.

00:16:19: And it works really well when the development team has access to production equipment or they can go out there and tweak things together with colleagues.

00:16:28: So it was really a big step for everyone, starting with the powder filling pressing then forming.

00:16:34: It's actually not a process step With exactly the same settings on the plant as it is with steel

00:16:40: and in addition... ...it's also a big leap forward.

00:16:43: We've been processing iron powder for decades And now copper powder is coming into production.

00:16:47: so its'a big step For let say our tool making quality assurance Production planning and of course our sales team In this case A we really means us, because this isn't something that can be done by a small team or just two people.

00:17:02: The entire site is behind it so that we can then bring such components into series production and looking further ahead use them globally in addition to our instead of forced off.

00:17:11: We Is the keyword that we would like to pick up on again now.

00:17:15: Now I would ask you tell us about your team.

00:17:18: So You already mentioned that you work closely together from Where the powder arrives to the moment when the part comes out finished.

00:17:25: tell us a little bit about who this we is.

00:17:28: how do you work together and I mentioned before that it's not just university graduates are on your team in development.

00:17:34: How does that worked together at your company, who do need for such an innovation offer such as successful product?

00:17:40: We actually meet everyone or all of them were very diverse i would say so.

00:17:45: on the developments side the core team where i was saying headquarters is in Forstdorf, Austria.

00:17:52: But we have R&D at all five of our production sites so we have our r and d teams there with different areas of expertise And you already mentioned that it's just as important to have people who have studied mechanical engineering As You might expect as It Is To Have People Who Have Trained With Us Like Apprentices Who Then Specialise And Start Working In Development With us.

00:18:14: Yes, we also have as is often the case long-serving skilled workers who have been transferring their expertise to development over the last few years.

00:18:22: We've trained heat treatment experts so it's very diverse and activities are correspondingly diverse from when you start with powder pressing it developing a process or measurement activity in the laboratory from microstructure analysis to strength testing.

00:18:40: I also have to test the component characteristics so you can imagine how diverse the range of tasks is.

00:18:45: It's important to note that we've always been committed to covering everything, from materials testing... ...to components testing and system testing at the Meebas intersites.

00:18:55: To manage this, I actually need the entire team and all their expertise.

00:19:00: And we have now actually acquired these expertise for copper components just as we did in the recent past for soft magnetic components starting with a powder and ending testing on system like an electric motor.

00:19:14: Great, so that means you need the entire team regardless of their training everyone working together.

00:19:19: What else is crucial for you to develop a successful product?

00:19:22: Are there any other components that you would say are essential for successful development?

00:19:27: I am convinced That what is essential Is simply the freedom To think outside The box otherwise You wouldn't come up with the products.

00:19:33: or when thousands Of people Say it can't be done We often don't actually know if it can be done or not, so we just do it.

00:19:39: We usually come to the conclusion that it might not work one hundred percent but so far we've mostly found a way to make it work and That's the point.

00:19:46: of course Development isn't always easy and fun.

00:19:48: That's logical.

00:19:49: you encounter obstacles.

00:19:50: You often find things where you say this is reaching the technical limits But what makes them mix in the diverse mix?

00:19:56: Is does that you have a lot of different approaches And if you don't completely close yourself off to them But pursue them to a certain point and say okay let's just try something that we suspect won't work at least will learn something new, And still be able to develop such products.

00:20:09: These

00:20:10: are often the supposedly stupid questions from an expert or another field That make you think in different direction.

00:20:17: We've already discussed that don't have mechanical engineers and material scientists but also had physicists so really cover lots of fields.

00:20:27: The topic of AI is becoming increasingly important as it's the topic of robots, humanoid robots.

00:20:34: So you could say that we will always need all disciplines.

00:20:38: Great!

00:20:39: That sounds like your work has very varied.

00:20:41: What do actually enjoy most?

00:20:43: I have to admit, i'm not a repetitive person so if had do the same thing every day... ...I wouldn't for long because just find it boring.

00:20:50: Thankfully in my case its usually not that you can do this everyday but rather opposite.. ..it's very varied and I can handle that well!

00:20:59: I don't know yet what will be doing in six months time?

00:21:01: It'll remain in the same department.

00:21:03: thats clear but dont'know now what we are developing in future....

00:21:08: Yes, I agree with Manuel.

00:21:09: It definitely remains exciting.

00:21:11: every day is exciting especially for me since i'm responsible For powder materials which we need globally.

00:21:17: this means working With our other locations to work on their problems.

00:21:21: it's actually a big advantage that We have that were represented On almost Every continent?

00:21:25: I wouldn't want To miss That!

00:21:28: MIBA develops solutions and technologies that are designed to make its customers products more efficient environmentally friendly And safer.

00:21:37: How does this copper component contribute to that?

00:21:39: I would say it's not just the copper components that contributes.

00:21:44: We have already addressed sustainability and carried out a very extensive evaluation of CO² footprint with one of our suppliers, we have an eighty percent lower product carbon footprint than conventional steel rods.

00:21:59: There are various reasons for these but one main reason is raw material.

00:22:05: Iron or steel powder is already produced from scrap.

00:22:08: This means that our big advantage, we start with almost zero as a starting product.

00:22:13: We use almost one hundred percent of raw material to manufacture the products So this is far superior to machining.

00:22:21: This applies to copper and iron and steel which are real big advantages for powdered metallurgy.

00:22:27: Sure if you're now moving in the direction of immobility it helps reduce environmental pollution.

00:22:32: That's also very clear requirement on the part of the owner, and also our inner drive.

00:22:38: What can we contribute to take a big step forward in this area or go along with it?

00:22:59: The next episode will be available on the first Tuesday of Next Month.

00:23:05: Until then, take

00:23:06: care!